16.11.14 Dare De Villo S.,.... Thank you for stating: "Doodling really, really is asemic". As a matter of fact, I'd go far as to say that's pretty much what we all are doing here to begin with. God bless us every one. Tiny Tim & Richard
Tiny Tim Leary and Richard Herb Alpert (Ram Dass or Rammed Ass?)? The 60s are such a jumble to me now, Richard.
Thanks for that invaluable clarification. I have been ranting about asemics and abstract linguistic theory, which is a track for some.
But children do asemic writing before they learn to write. We are, indeed, all doodlers. It's the simplistic thing in the world. No one should ever fear just jumping in and making asemics because anyone can do it without a thought.
DVS, thanks so much for your kind words about my first asemic piece. Your comment was such an encouragement to me. I was glad to hear what you had to say about doodling. :-)
DVS, you are so right when you say children do asemic writing before they learn to write. I love my two grandson's (3 and 6) art and "writing" much more than my own. There is something in their work I can't put my finger on but it draws me in. It feels very "organic", for lack of a better word right now. Or, maybe "organic" is the correct word. I'm sure someone else can explain this feeling much better than I.
Posting this again as I received it in the mail and it's quite wonderful "in person"---great piece, Terry. Around the considerations of what is asemic, for me arises a curiosity, since much art certainly qualifies as "having no specific semantic content, " whether adding in the word "writing" changes things.....as in "asemic writing." And this in considering ideograph style writing as in Chinese/Japanese (that which I'm most familiar with), or other "communicative symbols" whatever THAT means. Is a triangle on its own communicative? Certainly it might be open to interpretation......In this regard I'm remembering the flap about a sign language interpreter "translating" a speech, I think by Obama, and supposedly he was signing "gibberish." "Communicative symbols" failing to signify? Asemic sign language??? It's all quite fun to contemplate......
That's why I can appreciate the position of asemic "purists" even if I don't personally follow it or encourage it.
Above is an asemic piece Geof Huth sent me. You can see just how close it is to cursive English while at the same time being elusive in terms of meaning. This would be a traditional piece, IMHO. (Geof is a fantastic visual poet btw.)
Asemics or asemic writing is different from images because asemics is supposed to suggest a language without having any real meaning. (Hence the discussion about codes not long ago.)
(This gets very theoretical. A picture of an apple is not language. But the word "apple" is language. In asemic writing, the language has been disconnected from that which it is supposed to signify. So you have strings of "meaningless signifiers.") Any way...
So it's sort of fake language. I've seen people refer to it as a kind of weak replication of language and thus inferior to language.
But so many people are experimenting with asemic writing these days using so many novel approaches that it's evolving beyond the original definition. To satisfy everybody in this group, I conceded much of the work was asemic-vispo hybrid.
A lot of visual artists post work they think is asemic on FB. And some of the asemic writers get really steamed because anything similar to abstract expressionism isn't necessarily asemic, although it might be.
Mail-artists, because vispo and concrete poetry is so prevalent, usually have a pretty good sense of what asemic writing is and isn't. Often it's on an intuitive level. There are always cases open for debate and folks have to agree to disagree.
In our great debate here, Moan Lisa finally proclaimed, "Everything is asemic." Well, that didn't go over well and the tense part of the debate began.
But I'd say generally the "language suggestive" clause provides an anchor.
Jan it is very interesting and also helpful I think that you bring up asemics and sign language! Yes indeed there can be asemic sign language. I would not doubt there are Asemic ASL Performance Artists out there. However, that was not what happened with Obama's interpreter at Nelson Mandela's funeral. In that case, the interpreter had experienced a symptom of schizophrenia that is called "word salad." Word salad is a confused mixture of seemingly random words and phrases from the person's native language, therefore, semantics are present.
When I was just getting into this back during the book projects (I've known about asemic writing for a long time but never really dug deep) John Bennett (JMB) talked about "spoken word asemics" (not sure what he called it) but people who do public performances and readings of asemics. First, I couldn't imagine how it could be done. He explained how people did various things akin to stuttering, talking with things stuffed in their mouths, speaking in tongues rants - then I thought it was the funniest thing I ever heard. I guess there are recordings of asemic performances. Blaster Al did them, I think. Someone said Ray Johnson did them.
So you're only limited by your imagination. People write asemic music on music score paper. I've never heard it performed but imagine that exists also.
"Word salad" - great topic Kerri! Certainly in poetry, DaDaist and a lot of postmodern, there is cut-up, word salad type constructs that have similarities to schizophrenia and other kinds of disassociation, while the writers are consciously using the fragmentation techniques to achieve an effect.
Certainly a lot of the "word salad" compositions (a lot of Langpo is like that) is a bridge between conventional writing and asemics. In some cases, the fragmentation is so severe it might be considered asemic because meaning is impossible to determine.
I'm very familiar with "word salad" with my mother's decline into Alzheimer's back in the 90's. I even composed poetry around some of her phrases, like "winking in their troubles." Intended meaning? Not quite random, often still syntactically correct....Understandable if I was riding a wave of intimate communication?
I often talk gibberish to my dog---he seems to understand it about as well as he does my English :)
In a related vein, as a Zen priest and now nondual coach and facilitator I'm fascinated by the use of language to indicate This, that stands in for contentless awareness. Of course, as it's truly without content, words will never suffice, AND there is a way that words can take us beyond words. The 13th century Zen master Dogen was a master of phrases like, "mountains walking" that turned language (or is it our brains??) on their heads to bring about new ways of experiencing "reality" as do many koans. But this is a looooong subject (and at the same time very short.....) KATZ!!!
As a novice to asemics and asemic writing, I've been reading and appreciating the comments and views on it here. Thanks everyone for the recent insights. Jan, thanks for your nice words about my card. Perhaps I'll try the purist approach next time. In a way, I have an easier time understanding the purist approach. It makes sense to call it "writing" if it's something that looks like a language. I once read about creating one's own alphabet using made-up symbols. It might be fun to try it, then create an asemics writing with it. We'll see. :-)
I suppose the language I invented, Globbolalia, and the poetry I wrote using it, can be considered asemic, in that it's not a language one could make a dictionary for. Most words are only used once! And it certainly can be performed, as it has been, by me and others. The definitive books are available in various formats - Textis Globbolalicus, in 3 volumes, you can find them with a Google search.
John,after downloading Textis Globbolalicus Vol. III I can truly say it is lumivencent! Not only is it phintical in its syntefic nature, but the mictic surfolly really "cranks your crotch." Binga binga, indeed!
Some great asemic work by Carlyle Baker appears on the Post-Literate blog today (November 25). Carl is an active IUOMA member and his work has appeared on the M-L blog.
Volodymyr is an excellent visual poet. Send him your work, if you feel like you are ready to go public! EWC is a good venue. Volodymyr is active on FB.
De Villo, I really like the pieces Volodymyr used on his blog. I liked the first one (B&W) a lot. It spoke volumes to me. Then I saw the second one, and the color was amazing. I enjoyed all three but those first two pieces are favorites. Wonderful work!
Thx Terry, it's ironic that right now there is a debate in Michael Jacobson's Post-literate (asemic writing) group on FB about whether abstract art qualifies as asemics, such as Jackson Pollock to use one of many examples. It seems as if definitions are always being tested.
These pieces Volodymyr used are heavy on the vispo side. Definitely hybrid work. But I'm glad you like the Extreme Writing Community. A lot of interesting work turns up there.
Received great asemic-vispo from Matt Stolte in Wisconsin. His Construction Sea blog is well-worth a visit for asemics, vispo & m-a. There's a link in my posting.
At one point in this group, we held sessions of the Martha Stuart School of Asemic Wallpaper. (The MS School threads are still there; DK's graduation speech is deeply moving.) People tried to create usable things such as asemic glasses, asemic goggles, asemic gas, asemic fashion and of course asemic wallpaper. For this holiday season, I am encouraging the use of asemic wrapping paper. You can be an asemic wrapper! Like Christo! Please post any asemic wallpaper designs you might have. I'd love to re-post them at M-L.
Here are more of Meeah Williams's gorgeous recent asemics. (I thought: who is Pam Carelli, why is she living with Borderline Grafix, and how come this fantastic artist hasn't been heard from until now?!) :
Thanks Richard, Nancy, Susan M. - Meeah has been busy, hasn't she? Even Moan Lisa has been pulled in. Pam Carelli? Who are these people?
I think Meeah has used this, I guess, performance to showcase the finest asemic work she has ever done. It's just extraordinary, IMHO. So please keep sharing it if more turns up.
I hope my address is one of the places Meeah chooses to showcase her amazing work. :-) I absolutely love it! The color, the texture, the writing...it's everything this newbie pictured Asemic Writing to be.
Michael Jacobson has compiled the results of several discussions about asemic writing that took place on FB. This resulted from the posting by Nico Vassilikis: "What the Hell is asemic writing?" I think there are many interesting responses, and it's a great conceptualist idea transcribing (basically c&p) this material from the internet. Congrats to Michael and Nico.
I started reading Michael Jacobson's compilation of asemic writing discussions and it is long! I'll have to finish later. I am finding it very interesting reading, however, and like the fact that the conversations are all in one place. Thank you, Michael.
DVS, I will definitely let you know if I am fortunate enough to hear from Meeah.
Karen Redgreene, I really like your card DVS posted below. Beautiful work!
Terry, I thought Nico had a great idea creating a book - I'd put it in the critical theory category - using cut & paste discussions from Facebook.
It fits right in with the current conceptual writing craze. For example, one of my favs is a book called "Night Moves" that is made of text cut and pasted from the comment streams underneath Bob Seeger Youtube videos.
Many thanks to Terry Owenby for the beautiful holiday card she sent me, which she claims is non-asemic. I post it here because I think maybe, just maybe it is asemic or a little asemic or asemic suggestive. Input would be appreciated.
When I created this card, asemics was the farthest thing from my mind. I'm really glad you like it, DVS, and am curious to hear opinions on what, if anything, may be asemic about it. :-)
Richard Canard
16.11.14 Dare De Villo S.,.... Thank you for stating: "Doodling really, really is asemic". As a matter of fact, I'd go far as to say that's pretty much what we all are doing here to begin with. God bless us every one. Tiny Tim & Richard
Nov 16, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Tiny Tim Leary and Richard Herb Alpert (Ram Dass or Rammed Ass?)? The 60s are such a jumble to me now, Richard.
Thanks for that invaluable clarification. I have been ranting about asemics and abstract linguistic theory, which is a track for some.
But children do asemic writing before they learn to write. We are, indeed, all doodlers. It's the simplistic thing in the world. No one should ever fear just jumping in and making asemics because anyone can do it without a thought.
Nov 16, 2014
Terry Owenby
DVS, thanks so much for your kind words about my first asemic piece. Your comment was such an encouragement to me. I was glad to hear what you had to say about doodling. :-)
Nov 17, 2014
Terry Owenby
DVS, you are so right when you say children do asemic writing before they learn to write. I love my two grandson's (3 and 6) art and "writing" much more than my own. There is something in their work I can't put my finger on but it draws me in. It feels very "organic", for lack of a better word right now. Or, maybe "organic" is the correct word. I'm sure someone else can explain this feeling much better than I.
Nov 17, 2014
MUSEUM OF MAIL ART
Nov 17, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Received asemics from Jack Oudyn in Australia. Many thanks!
http://iuoma-network.ning.com/profiles/blogs/asemics-by-jack-oudyn-...
Nice post museumofmailart!
Nov 19, 2014
MUSEUM OF MAIL ART
Nov 23, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Asemics from Alicia Starr (Iowa, USA)
Nov 23, 2014
Jan Hodgman
Nov 23, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Great questions and observations, Jan.
That's why I can appreciate the position of asemic "purists" even if I don't personally follow it or encourage it.
Above is an asemic piece Geof Huth sent me. You can see just how close it is to cursive English while at the same time being elusive in terms of meaning. This would be a traditional piece, IMHO. (Geof is a fantastic visual poet btw.)
Asemics or asemic writing is different from images because asemics is supposed to suggest a language without having any real meaning. (Hence the discussion about codes not long ago.)
(This gets very theoretical. A picture of an apple is not language. But the word "apple" is language. In asemic writing, the language has been disconnected from that which it is supposed to signify. So you have strings of "meaningless signifiers.") Any way...
So it's sort of fake language. I've seen people refer to it as a kind of weak replication of language and thus inferior to language.
But so many people are experimenting with asemic writing these days using so many novel approaches that it's evolving beyond the original definition. To satisfy everybody in this group, I conceded much of the work was asemic-vispo hybrid.
A lot of visual artists post work they think is asemic on FB. And some of the asemic writers get really steamed because anything similar to abstract expressionism isn't necessarily asemic, although it might be.
Mail-artists, because vispo and concrete poetry is so prevalent, usually have a pretty good sense of what asemic writing is and isn't. Often it's on an intuitive level. There are always cases open for debate and folks have to agree to disagree.
In our great debate here, Moan Lisa finally proclaimed, "Everything is asemic." Well, that didn't go over well and the tense part of the debate began.
But I'd say generally the "language suggestive" clause provides an anchor.
Nov 23, 2014
Kerri Pullo
Jan it is very interesting and also helpful I think that you bring up asemics and sign language! Yes indeed there can be asemic sign language. I would not doubt there are Asemic ASL Performance Artists out there. However, that was not what happened with Obama's interpreter at Nelson Mandela's funeral. In that case, the interpreter had experienced a symptom of schizophrenia that is called "word salad." Word salad is a confused mixture of seemingly random words and phrases from the person's native language, therefore, semantics are present.
Nov 23, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Asemic sign language - great!
When I was just getting into this back during the book projects (I've known about asemic writing for a long time but never really dug deep) John Bennett (JMB) talked about "spoken word asemics" (not sure what he called it) but people who do public performances and readings of asemics. First, I couldn't imagine how it could be done. He explained how people did various things akin to stuttering, talking with things stuffed in their mouths, speaking in tongues rants - then I thought it was the funniest thing I ever heard. I guess there are recordings of asemic performances. Blaster Al did them, I think. Someone said Ray Johnson did them.
So you're only limited by your imagination. People write asemic music on music score paper. I've never heard it performed but imagine that exists also.
"Word salad" - great topic Kerri! Certainly in poetry, DaDaist and a lot of postmodern, there is cut-up, word salad type constructs that have similarities to schizophrenia and other kinds of disassociation, while the writers are consciously using the fragmentation techniques to achieve an effect.
Certainly a lot of the "word salad" compositions (a lot of Langpo is like that) is a bridge between conventional writing and asemics. In some cases, the fragmentation is so severe it might be considered asemic because meaning is impossible to determine.
Nov 23, 2014
Jan Hodgman
I'm very familiar with "word salad" with my mother's decline into Alzheimer's back in the 90's. I even composed poetry around some of her phrases, like "winking in their troubles." Intended meaning? Not quite random, often still syntactically correct....Understandable if I was riding a wave of intimate communication?
I often talk gibberish to my dog---he seems to understand it about as well as he does my English :)
In a related vein, as a Zen priest and now nondual coach and facilitator I'm fascinated by the use of language to indicate This, that stands in for contentless awareness. Of course, as it's truly without content, words will never suffice, AND there is a way that words can take us beyond words. The 13th century Zen master Dogen was a master of phrases like, "mountains walking" that turned language (or is it our brains??) on their heads to bring about new ways of experiencing "reality" as do many koans. But this is a looooong subject (and at the same time very short.....) KATZ!!!
Nov 23, 2014
Terry Owenby
As a novice to asemics and asemic writing, I've been reading and appreciating the comments and views on it here. Thanks everyone for the recent insights. Jan, thanks for your nice words about my card. Perhaps I'll try the purist approach next time. In a way, I have an easier time understanding the purist approach. It makes sense to call it "writing" if it's something that looks like a language. I once read about creating one's own alphabet using made-up symbols. It might be fun to try it, then create an asemics writing with it. We'll see. :-)
Nov 24, 2014
John M. Bennett
I suppose the language I invented, Globbolalia, and the poetry I wrote using it, can be considered asemic, in that it's not a language one could make a dictionary for. Most words are only used once! And it certainly can be performed, as it has been, by me and others. The definitive books are available in various formats - Textis Globbolalicus, in 3 volumes, you can find them with a Google search.
Nov 24, 2014
Jan Hodgman
John,after downloading Textis Globbolalicus Vol. III I can truly say it is lumivencent! Not only is it phintical in its syntefic nature, but the mictic surfolly really "cranks your crotch." Binga binga, indeed!
Nov 24, 2014
John M. Bennett
Lembratentive, Jan!
bingabinga
john
Nov 24, 2014
Jan Hodgman
a jolly laugh starts the day
as the scabby apples
drop.
Nov 24, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Some great asemic work by Carlyle Baker appears on the Post-Literate blog today (November 25). Carl is an active IUOMA member and his work has appeared on the M-L blog.
http://thenewpostliterate.blogspot.com/
Nov 25, 2014
John M. Bennett
Nov 25, 2014
Terry Owenby
John, I love the name of your new language, "Globbolalia". I'm waiting for it to download at this very moment and I look forward to seeing it.
Nov 25, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Volodymyr Bilyk (Ukraine) used three of my recent pieces on his Extreme Writing Community blog. They have asemic elements.
http://seks-ua.blogspot.com/2014/12/de-villo-sloan.html
Volodymyr is an excellent visual poet. Send him your work, if you feel like you are ready to go public! EWC is a good venue. Volodymyr is active on FB.
Dec 1, 2014
Terry Owenby
De Villo, I really like the pieces Volodymyr used on his blog. I liked the first one (B&W) a lot. It spoke volumes to me. Then I saw the second one, and the color was amazing. I enjoyed all three but those first two pieces are favorites. Wonderful work!
Dec 2, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Thx Terry, it's ironic that right now there is a debate in Michael Jacobson's Post-literate (asemic writing) group on FB about whether abstract art qualifies as asemics, such as Jackson Pollock to use one of many examples. It seems as if definitions are always being tested.
These pieces Volodymyr used are heavy on the vispo side. Definitely hybrid work. But I'm glad you like the Extreme Writing Community. A lot of interesting work turns up there.
Dec 2, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Received great asemic-vispo from Matt Stolte in Wisconsin. His Construction Sea blog is well-worth a visit for asemics, vispo & m-a. There's a link in my posting.
http://iuoma-network.ning.com/profiles/blogs/asemic-vispo-by-matthe...
Dec 4, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Welcome Linda Faye French! Feel free to post any work you think appropriate, make statements, ask questions, observe. Thanks for joining.
Dec 5, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Dec 5, 2014
De Villo Sloan
I meant, I'm looking for asemic wrapping paper, not asemic wallpaper. We have lots of the wallpaper already.
Dec 5, 2014
De Villo Sloan
http://iuoma-network.ning.com/profiles/blogs/the-strange-case-of-na...
Dec 9, 2014
Terry Owenby
Meeah's work is fabulous! Thanks for sharing, De Villo Sloan.
Dec 14, 2014
De Villo Sloan
You are welcome, Terry. Great examples for sure.
And welcome to Michael Dugan. Thanks for posting some interesting work in the "What is Asemic Writing?" section.
Dec 15, 2014
Nancy Bell Scott
Here are more of Meeah Williams's gorgeous recent asemics. (I thought: who is Pam Carelli, why is she living with Borderline Grafix, and how come this fantastic artist hasn't been heard from until now?!) :
Dec 17, 2014
Susan McAllister
Dec 17, 2014
Richard Canard
1.12.14 Dare De Villo S. & Ms. Nancy B., ....Yeah, this Pam Carelli is good....plus, she is a Jimi Hendrix fan!!!!......R.
Dec 17, 2014
De Villo Sloan
SSP (Shameless Self Promotion) Show and Tell: Michael Jacobson posted new asemic work by me at the New Post-Literate blog.
http://thenewpostliterate.blogspot.com/2014/12/1-from-de-villo-sloa...
Thanks Richard, Nancy, Susan M. - Meeah has been busy, hasn't she? Even Moan Lisa has been pulled in. Pam Carelli? Who are these people?
I think Meeah has used this, I guess, performance to showcase the finest asemic work she has ever done. It's just extraordinary, IMHO. So please keep sharing it if more turns up.
Dec 17, 2014
MUSEUM OF MAIL ART
Dec 21, 2014
MUSEUM OF MAIL ART
Dec 21, 2014
John M. Bennett
Dec 21, 2014
Terry Owenby
I hope my address is one of the places Meeah chooses to showcase her amazing work. :-) I absolutely love it! The color, the texture, the writing...it's everything this newbie pictured Asemic Writing to be.
Dec 22, 2014
De Villo Sloan
Karen Redgreene (Oakland, CA) sent a great asemic card. Thanks Karen!
Welcome to anamerari from Brazil! I hope you'll share some work with us.
Terry, I'd be really interested to know if you receive anything from Meeah Williams.
Thanks JMB. Thanks museumofmailart.
Jan 5, 2015
De Villo Sloan
Jan 6, 2015
De Villo Sloan
Michael Jacobson has compiled the results of several discussions about asemic writing that took place on FB. This resulted from the posting by Nico Vassilikis: "What the Hell is asemic writing?" I think there are many interesting responses, and it's a great conceptualist idea transcribing (basically c&p) this material from the internet. Congrats to Michael and Nico.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/251889117/What-the-Hell-is-Asemic-Writing
Jan 7, 2015
De Villo Sloan
Nico Vassilakis, that is.
Jan 7, 2015
Terry Owenby
I started reading Michael Jacobson's compilation of asemic writing discussions and it is long! I'll have to finish later. I am finding it very interesting reading, however, and like the fact that the conversations are all in one place. Thank you, Michael.
DVS, I will definitely let you know if I am fortunate enough to hear from Meeah.
Karen Redgreene, I really like your card DVS posted below. Beautiful work!
Jan 7, 2015
MUSEUM OF MAIL ART
Jan 10, 2015
Daniel de Culla
Every Best Wish.
Season's Greetings.
Jan 10, 2015
De Villo Sloan
Terry, I thought Nico had a great idea creating a book - I'd put it in the critical theory category - using cut & paste discussions from Facebook.
It fits right in with the current conceptual writing craze. For example, one of my favs is a book called "Night Moves" that is made of text cut and pasted from the comment streams underneath Bob Seeger Youtube videos.
Terry, maybe you can write a conceptual book too.
Jan 11, 2015
De Villo Sloan
Many thanks to Terry Owenby for the beautiful holiday card she sent me, which she claims is non-asemic. I post it here because I think maybe, just maybe it is asemic or a little asemic or asemic suggestive. Input would be appreciated.
http://iuoma-network.ning.com/profiles/blogs/non-asemic-by-terry-ow...
Jan 12, 2015
Linda French
I vote asemic suggestive. --Linda
Jan 12, 2015
Terry Owenby
When I created this card, asemics was the farthest thing from my mind. I'm really glad you like it, DVS, and am curious to hear opinions on what, if anything, may be asemic about it. :-)
Jan 14, 2015