Literature and Art

Comment

Comment by De Villo Sloan on July 29, 2011 at 2:28am

Theresa, I've read a bunch of Whitman biographies and the dancing around the gay issue is ridiculous, IMHO. I do think there's criticism of Whitman (unintentionally) presenting a wildly visionary doctrine for America that could never be attained. Even during his time, industrialization was destroying any hope of that ideal. So people look to the darker visions of Emily Dickinson, Herman Melville, E.A. Poe for a more accurate view on the US during that general era.

 

Whitman was the only person of note who attended Poe's funeral BTW, a bit of trivia 

Comment by De Villo Sloan on July 29, 2011 at 2:21am

"A Pact" is fantastic Theresa, thanks. You always have Freudian, generational dynamics going on in art - you learn to expect it after a while ;)

 

Sometimes I am enough of a formalist to think: "the history of literature is a history of forms." If you look back, what does seem to have been happening at the start of the 20th century was a final throwing off of traditional poetry (although the debate continues today).

Yeah, Whitman is central in creating free verse poetics, so Pound came to terms with him, despite a distrust.

 

What's interesting is how "free verse" - the dominant mode now - remains still so undefined in terms of poetics.

 

You can trace things back in time endlessly, but you see traditional prosody starting to collapse in Romanticism - Wordsworth and Coleridge were very aware of it - and they considered it an incorporation of "common speech."

 

Oh my, don't get me started...

Comment by De Villo Sloan on July 29, 2011 at 2:09am

Oh, and why people can't see that about Whitman - well, he's held up as bard of democracy, so there's been a lot of attempts to square Whitman with Darwinistic, ego-centered capitalism, and some guy having transcendental visions about the fundamental equality of everyone everywhere actually doesn't serve "official" US kultur very well. And then there's that LITTLE problem, brought up earlier, that - Lord Forbid! - he might have been gay. And no one yet can either confirm nor deny.

Comment by De Villo Sloan on July 29, 2011 at 2:04am

Defintely Nancy, so crucial to Whitman AND society in general. Whitman isn't about self-centered ego at all. It's very visionary - he extends the limits of himself to become other people - some kind of collective soul that connects us all and forms the basis of a healthy democracy. The paradox with Whitman is you must know yourself and discover yourself in order to know others, you know? I'm not saying it well.

 

I know what you mean about Hawthorne. Yes, Whitman was another who had a terrible time being trashed by his contemporaries - the "School Room" poets like Whittier, James Russell Lowell (of the family with Amy Lowell, Robert Lowell) trashed the poor guy. One of your neighbors - Ralph Waldo Emerson - championed Whitman.

 

The poetry wars go back and back..

Comment by Nancy Bell Scott on July 29, 2011 at 1:53am

And, I also mean to say, it has baffled me why so many critics (and other people) assume "Song of Myself" is literally about Whitman only, that his view would be that small.

Comment by Nancy Bell Scott on July 29, 2011 at 1:47am

DVS -- thank you for posting those last lines -- they are universal (or is cosmic bigger?).  It has been a long time since I first read them, but warm chills went down my spine just now.  (If chills can be warm, but here they are anyway!)  Whitman's Leaves of Grass was part of a freshman lit. major course, but it needed its own course or seminar.  It wasn't easy to appreciate it fully while reading and writing about 23 or so other lit. major requirements.  In American lit. (and the Irish and German writers appealed to me more), the only writer I felt nothing for was Hawthorne.

Comment by De Villo Sloan on July 29, 2011 at 1:29am

For sure, I haven't read those words in a while, and I feel better just having read them. It's totally "free verse" but I'm also struck by the completely beautiful rhythm of the language. It's not "SONG of Myself" for no reason. Thanks for bringing this all back Theresa...

Comment by De Villo Sloan on July 29, 2011 at 1:19am

The last lines of "Song of Myself" kinda stand on their own:

 

"You will hardly know who I am or what I mean, 
But I shall be good health to you nevertheless, 
And filter and fibre your blood. 

Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, 
Missing me one place search another, 
I stop somewhere waiting for you."

Comment by De Villo Sloan on July 29, 2011 at 12:59am

I really appreciate your Walt Whitman mail-art, Theresa. "Leaves of Grass" is among my all-time favorites, and within that "Song of Myself," of course. Yip, that's a great photo of Walt.

Comment by Nancy Bell Scott on July 28, 2011 at 7:19pm

The pronouns were confusing, as if Chris had called Maurice gay, when Maurice, as you know, was a quivering macho man.  Can certainly see him doing the can't-undermine-our-heroes bit.  Walt would have been rolling over etc.

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