Nothing is harder than that, Superhero, wow -- my heart goes out to you. I will send you the spirit piece mentioned a whole bunch of comments below if you'd like that.
Diane, loving this: "the brain hackers ... think in bar codes." Talk about scary!
Jul 12, 2011
you don't need to do anything nancy!
i'm ok at the moment, i had a really bad week last week,
but even then there's not much you can do.
it's just kind of like a storm, it comes and it goes,
in between is an awful mess.
then i pick up the pieces and carry on.
i think its like my zombiesemics, it's all to do with internals.
Hi Nancy, I'm still working through the contention that reared its head in the asemic group. Mail-art, especially at the IUOMA, is such a supportive community, so open to different styles and viewpoints, I guess I was lulled into forgetting that culture "out there" is a battlefield of egos and people openly criticizing each other.
Because I've been involved in mail-art projects where none of this emerged, I'm personally concluding it does have something to do with asemic writing outside of mail-art. Mostly, we deal with people who are visual artists. Asemic writers seem to be drawn in from contemporary poetry, which was and, sadly, seems to remain an eternal battleground rather than an eternal network. Ron Silliman on his blog - about the time he shut down his own comment stream out of frustration and disgust - characterized poetry as "a contact sport" and reminded folks that even Dante's "Divine Comedy" was a way of settling scores with poets Dante didn't like.
The mail-art network has supported things like concrete poetry and visual poetry for decades; some of that comes a similar support that has always been found in Fluxus. Our exploration of these things in the network makes perfect sense. But mail-art has been largely an underground network, a well-kept secret impervious to cultural storms above. The web makes that less so. Anyone can peer in and find what you're doing. That's generally good, because we're better able to find kindred spirits more easily - but you can also find yourself in the middle of arguments or debates going on in other communities you never knew about or cared about. Some of us have been involved in mail-art before and are more aware that it has its own culture and conventions. I suppose those can always change, but there's something really nice about the network you rarely find anywhere.
Ultimately, it seems like most people here just want to do mail-art. I just don't want people to be fearful of posting any kind of work - that would be a horrible tragedy.
Yes, I brought Superhero to tears by (jokingly) comparing him to Charles Manson. Manson's infamous interpretation of "Helter Skelter," "Blackbird," and the Beatles' White Album is really a classic question of the limits of personal interpretation, you know? If I decide the White Album is a visionary prediction of a race war based on "Revelations," does that entitle to send my band of Charlie's Angels girlbots out to murder a bunch of people? Is my interpretation an valid as others? But I was kidding and feel bad about bringing SH to tears and his departure from the group. I'm glad he feels like he can come and go now - as the walls aren't real. We're all in this together, IMHO.
HI ASEMIC PEOPLE!!! LEARNING A LOT IN THIS WONDERFULL GROUP... MY FIRST ASEMICS ARE TRAVELING NOW. I'LL SEND MORE TODAY... I'M EXPLORING SOME PRINTED ASEMICS, URBAN, EVERYDAY ONES...
IT'S DIFICULT TO ME TO EXPRESS MY OWN IDEAS IN ENGLISH, BUT I AGREE IN THE "OPEN PERSPECTIVE" THAT MAKES ME THINK AND EXPERIMENT.
I'M REALLY IMPRESSED... MAIL ART IS NOT RESTRICTIVE, AND IT MUST BE KEEPT IN THAT WAY!!!
Jul 12, 2011
it was an extremely bad week, as i said, you just happened to be the one to pull the trigger.
and although it was an annoyance that i felt estranged for a while after trying to bring my digital asemic writing into the group here, i'm glad things went the way they did, because it gave me a chance to explore whole new areas of my art that i probably would have left behind, with just a "proof of concept" art as my trail.
but, i suppose in a good portion of alternate universes, that is how it all went down.
Thanks, SH - as for true confessions: Cheryl and I started the group equally together. I ended up with this dangerous thing of these powers you have to control various aspects of the group - that's really Ruud Janssen's domain as ultimate moderator for IUOMA. And what an extraordinary job he does!!! Anyway, during the darkest hours of the Asemic Correctness Mutiny, I actually suspended Cheryl from placing comments - My only excuse is I saw all these comments I thought were really negative... So Cheryl was actually suspended from our group - the only one. But then Cheryl and I debate endlessly about issues and positions via email. And sometimes that's a good place to work these things out - privately. Cheryl and I had a serious go-around over the cultural elitist thing.Yes, the asemic group had the equivalent of a Cuban Missile Crisis. But you know - there were the Monkey Purges and the Sandpo Purges - all that was a bad idea. We learned from that too.
It sounds like it brought up people's fundamental values here, DVS, as artists and as human beings. The inner turmoil from something like that does last a while, or at least can be sparked easily. It IS a battlefield out there culturally, in practically every corner, and unfortunately there's a tendency on the part of too many to engage in cyberspace road rage -- as if there aren't real human beings behind the wheel. I'm sure this could have been and was anticipated by early internet users, but I know personally that it's a shock to have what you thought or hoped was somewhat a haven from all that invaded and trampled by residents of highly controlled communities.
If asemic writers from other, contentious communities can't take artistic freedom, then unfortunately there is a battle to be fought, but one can always hope it won't happen too often. I have been here such a short time, but have seen and felt in a very strong way the supportiveness of IUOMA, certainly including your group. Like you say, mail-art can't be as underground now as it once was, due to the internet, but I think it can at least be kept relatively free in comparison to the countless stepford-wives communities out there, if not in comparison to itself before the internet. I have a very good feeling about it, if that means anything. Fluxus seems to be flourishing, as far as I can tell from Cecil Touchon, whose CollageMuseum list I've been on since 2005.
Yes, people fearful of posting any kind of work would be a tragedy. I could sense that belief here as soon as I arrived, but it's good to read you actually say the words! I see nervousness about possible "rules" in some of my earlier posts or comments, because one assumes they are everywhere, but you will likely see that rapidly shrink in my communications here.
I'd forgotten what a vindictive character Dante was!
Jul 12, 2011
neil: i'll send you a message as soon as i code up my asemic email program!
Fantastic post, Nancy! Maybe it's worthwhile for people how know about the long-held values of the eternal network to share, especially for the benefit of newer folks. IUOMA turns out to be a Mecca for the network and Fluxus. I couldn't believe the roster of people when I joined a year ago, and it's getting better.
On the subject of the (largely imaginary) purges and expulsions - In the "old" Fluxus, George Maciunas did attempt to run the movement as a dictatorship with expulsions, official positions etc. In the Sandpo Movement that started here last spring, the original model was sort of fascistic, in retrospect. Diane Keys remains Minister of Propaganda and she did much to eliminate those practices. These are definitely different times, and that kind of leadership just doesn't work anymore.
Again, great statement you wrote. It is a New Era!
oh, and our comrades in the Haptic Poetry Group - some of them also asemic writers - they're doing really interesting things, only they tend to be a little more reserved than over here - DK made me post my letter of apology over when I tried to expel Cheryl from Sandpo. You missed a few things, Nancy. But I have a feeling the best is yet to come
Jul 12, 2011
i just hope whatever it happens to be, it's my fault! ;-D
ok, this quote was on the stack of reading last night, just when i was thinking of pulling out due to ego and insecurity: "If you do the work that you do from a loving heart, then you will always be able to make something beautiful". thanks to all. this experience is a 'wake up'.
I have posted photo spreads of asemics received so far in my album "Asemic Connections" and on http://www.cherylpenn.com/wpb/ - hope I didn't go tooooo dramatic - but I had fun :-) - thank you for all the work so far X
Just returned from the PO with Imelda's chapters! I won't spoil it for you by telling you more...., but you will love them, group #2! They will definitely put a smile on your face. :-)
Here's a detail pic of a section from Cheryl Penn's Edition #2 chapter. Was in my blog yesterday but not sure if y'all saw it. People seem to like the screen-over, nice writing:
Here's a nice bit of asemic work Frieder Speck (Germany) included in his fake Kurt Schwitters package - this is not fake Kurt Schwitters however. REALLY like the John Bennett piece further down the thread too.
Due date for Books 1 and 2 is end July, Book # 3, end August, # 4 end October. Please will everyone - for the sake of all participants make sure their work is out before these dates. There are a few participants who have been VERY quiet - I hope this just means they are WORKING!
i'm good at taking most discussion with a grain of salt,
but i will warn you i do have moments.
i have a lot on my plate this year since my son died in november.
but i think DVS is the only one mean enough to make me cry. ;-D
Jul 12, 2011
diane!!!
i'm just finishing up my collage and almost forgot about the barcode!
thanks for reminding me!!!
Jul 12, 2011
zombiesemics is not asemically correct. ;-)
Jul 12, 2011
Nancy Bell Scott
Nothing is harder than that, Superhero, wow -- my heart goes out to you. I will send you the spirit piece mentioned a whole bunch of comments below if you'd like that.
Diane, loving this: "the brain hackers ... think in bar codes." Talk about scary!
Jul 12, 2011
you don't need to do anything nancy!
i'm ok at the moment, i had a really bad week last week,
but even then there's not much you can do.
it's just kind of like a storm, it comes and it goes,
in between is an awful mess.
then i pick up the pieces and carry on.
i think its like my zombiesemics, it's all to do with internals.
it all happens in the brain.
as for thinking in barcodes,
i don't think brain hackers think in them,
but my armani skateboard chic probably does!
Jul 12, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Hi Nancy, I'm still working through the contention that reared its head in the asemic group. Mail-art, especially at the IUOMA, is such a supportive community, so open to different styles and viewpoints, I guess I was lulled into forgetting that culture "out there" is a battlefield of egos and people openly criticizing each other.
Because I've been involved in mail-art projects where none of this emerged, I'm personally concluding it does have something to do with asemic writing outside of mail-art. Mostly, we deal with people who are visual artists. Asemic writers seem to be drawn in from contemporary poetry, which was and, sadly, seems to remain an eternal battleground rather than an eternal network. Ron Silliman on his blog - about the time he shut down his own comment stream out of frustration and disgust - characterized poetry as "a contact sport" and reminded folks that even Dante's "Divine Comedy" was a way of settling scores with poets Dante didn't like.
The mail-art network has supported things like concrete poetry and visual poetry for decades; some of that comes a similar support that has always been found in Fluxus. Our exploration of these things in the network makes perfect sense. But mail-art has been largely an underground network, a well-kept secret impervious to cultural storms above. The web makes that less so. Anyone can peer in and find what you're doing. That's generally good, because we're better able to find kindred spirits more easily - but you can also find yourself in the middle of arguments or debates going on in other communities you never knew about or cared about. Some of us have been involved in mail-art before and are more aware that it has its own culture and conventions. I suppose those can always change, but there's something really nice about the network you rarely find anywhere.
Ultimately, it seems like most people here just want to do mail-art. I just don't want people to be fearful of posting any kind of work - that would be a horrible tragedy.
Yes, I brought Superhero to tears by (jokingly) comparing him to Charles Manson. Manson's infamous interpretation of "Helter Skelter," "Blackbird," and the Beatles' White Album is really a classic question of the limits of personal interpretation, you know? If I decide the White Album is a visionary prediction of a race war based on "Revelations," does that entitle to send my band of Charlie's Angels girlbots out to murder a bunch of people? Is my interpretation an valid as others? But I was kidding and feel bad about bringing SH to tears and his departure from the group. I'm glad he feels like he can come and go now - as the walls aren't real. We're all in this together, IMHO.
Jul 12, 2011
Marcela Peral
HI ASEMIC PEOPLE!!! LEARNING A LOT IN THIS WONDERFULL GROUP... MY FIRST ASEMICS ARE TRAVELING NOW. I'LL SEND MORE TODAY... I'M EXPLORING SOME PRINTED ASEMICS, URBAN, EVERYDAY ONES...
IT'S DIFICULT TO ME TO EXPRESS MY OWN IDEAS IN ENGLISH, BUT I AGREE IN THE "OPEN PERSPECTIVE" THAT MAKES ME THINK AND EXPERIMENT.
I'M REALLY IMPRESSED... MAIL ART IS NOT RESTRICTIVE, AND IT MUST BE KEEPT IN THAT WAY!!!
Jul 12, 2011
it was an extremely bad week, as i said, you just happened to be the one to pull the trigger.
and although it was an annoyance that i felt estranged for a while after trying to bring my digital asemic writing into the group here, i'm glad things went the way they did, because it gave me a chance to explore whole new areas of my art that i probably would have left behind, with just a "proof of concept" art as my trail.
but, i suppose in a good portion of alternate universes, that is how it all went down.
Jul 12, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Jul 12, 2011
Neil Gordon
Jul 12, 2011
Jul 12, 2011
Neil Gordon
Jul 12, 2011
Nancy Bell Scott
It sounds like it brought up people's fundamental values here, DVS, as artists and as human beings. The inner turmoil from something like that does last a while, or at least can be sparked easily. It IS a battlefield out there culturally, in practically every corner, and unfortunately there's a tendency on the part of too many to engage in cyberspace road rage -- as if there aren't real human beings behind the wheel. I'm sure this could have been and was anticipated by early internet users, but I know personally that it's a shock to have what you thought or hoped was somewhat a haven from all that invaded and trampled by residents of highly controlled communities.
If asemic writers from other, contentious communities can't take artistic freedom, then unfortunately there is a battle to be fought, but one can always hope it won't happen too often. I have been here such a short time, but have seen and felt in a very strong way the supportiveness of IUOMA, certainly including your group. Like you say, mail-art can't be as underground now as it once was, due to the internet, but I think it can at least be kept relatively free in comparison to the countless stepford-wives communities out there, if not in comparison to itself before the internet. I have a very good feeling about it, if that means anything. Fluxus seems to be flourishing, as far as I can tell from Cecil Touchon, whose CollageMuseum list I've been on since 2005.
Yes, people fearful of posting any kind of work would be a tragedy. I could sense that belief here as soon as I arrived, but it's good to read you actually say the words! I see nervousness about possible "rules" in some of my earlier posts or comments, because one assumes they are everywhere, but you will likely see that rapidly shrink in my communications here.
I'd forgotten what a vindictive character Dante was!
Jul 12, 2011
Jul 12, 2011
prettylily
Jul 12, 2011
De Villo Sloan
On the subject of the (largely imaginary) purges and expulsions - In the "old" Fluxus, George Maciunas did attempt to run the movement as a dictatorship with expulsions, official positions etc. In the Sandpo Movement that started here last spring, the original model was sort of fascistic, in retrospect. Diane Keys remains Minister of Propaganda and she did much to eliminate those practices. These are definitely different times, and that kind of leadership just doesn't work anymore.
Again, great statement you wrote. It is a New Era!
Jul 12, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Jul 12, 2011
Jul 13, 2011
DKeys
DVS makes the girls AND boys cry alike. The haptic group is very touchy feely
SH must NOT be the s cape goat
Jul 13, 2011
i don't have a cape.
the closest i have is this (thanks to limner cade):
Jul 13, 2011
it also happens to be my most haptic piece yet.
very fuzzy!!!
and the bag is super crinkly!
Jul 13, 2011
Jul 13, 2011
DKeys
Jul 13, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Jul 13, 2011
Alicia Starr
Jul 13, 2011
cheryl penn
Jul 13, 2011
prettylily
Jul 13, 2011
prettylily
Jul 13, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Here's a detail pic of a section from Cheryl Penn's Edition #2 chapter. Was in my blog yesterday but not sure if y'all saw it. People seem to like the screen-over, nice writing:
Jul 14, 2011
Nancy Bell Scott
Jul 14, 2011
Nancy Bell Scott
Jul 14, 2011
John M. Bennett
Jul 14, 2011
Nancy Bell Scott
Jul 14, 2011
cheryl penn
Work from DVS
Jul 14, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Here's a nice bit of asemic work Frieder Speck (Germany) included in his fake Kurt Schwitters package - this is not fake Kurt Schwitters however. REALLY like the John Bennett piece further down the thread too.
Jul 15, 2011
DKeys
Jul 15, 2011
prettylily
Oh boy, John Bennett's work arrived today, via Cheryl. Thank you both! Cheryl, I sent you a message.
Has anyone considered binding the envelopes with the chapters? I am thinking about doing so, once all of mine are here.
Jul 15, 2011
prettylily
Jul 15, 2011
more asemic zmbies, this time from fifi!!!
Jul 16, 2011
PIRO
Jul 16, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Jul 16, 2011
Jul 16, 2011
um. and good at baseball too?
Jul 16, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Jul 16, 2011
this one?
Jul 16, 2011
De Villo Sloan
Jul 16, 2011
cheryl penn
ADMIN:
Due date for Books 1 and 2 is end July, Book # 3, end August, # 4 end October. Please will everyone - for the sake of all participants make sure their work is out before these dates. There are a few participants who have been VERY quiet - I hope this just means they are WORKING!
Jul 16, 2011
cheryl penn
Jul 16, 2011
Samuel Montalvetti
Saludos
Samuel
Jul 16, 2011
cheryl penn
Jul 16, 2011